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And if any of you have reservations about this, this is the time to leave.” So I looked at Jack, and I looked at Walt. I mean, we kind of shrugged our shoulders and said, “OK, if you want to invade Haiti, I mean, it’s not illegal. The opposition there consists of five armored vehicles. And so, I’m encouraged by the fact that some of these generals have said this about Iran. We’ll come back to my interview with him in a minute. People like First Lieutenant Ehren Watada, first commissioned officer to say no to deploy. I think it’s been a tremendous distraction from the war on terror, a diversion of resources, and it’s reinforced our enemies. Now, the general who ordered that, he suffered some severe repercussions, personally, morally, but after that the soldiers in France didn’t disobey.

But sure, I mean, if the President says to do it, yeah, we’re not going resign over it.” And so, we didn’t resign. [break] AMY GOODMAN: We go back to my interview with General Wesley Clark. And they just declared a mistrial in his court-martial. What do you think of these young men and women — there are now thousands — who are refusing? But on the other hand, his case is a moral case, not a legal case. Had the army disintegrated at that point, Germany would have occupied France. It has the power to appoint, power to investigate, power to fund. On all three fronts, you find out what the President needs, until he takes it seriously.

I’d have no-holds-barred and no-preconditioned discussion with Iran and Syria. And you notice, as the ship plows through the water at thirty knots, that this area where there are no stars is getting larger. WESLEY CLARK: Well, I think the first thing Congress should do is repeal the Military Commissions Act. This president has distorted the capabilities of the United States Armed Forces.

And I would let it be known that I’ve got in my bag all the tricks, including putting another 50,000 troops in Iraq and pulling all 150,000 troops out. And finally, it hits you that there must be something out there that’s blocking the starlight, like an iceberg. And you say, “Captain, captain, there’s an iceberg, and we’re driving right toward it.” And he says, “Look, I can’t be bothered with the iceberg right now. AMY GOODMAN: If Congress cut off funds for the prison there, it would be closed. I’m very disturbed that a number of people who are looking at the highest office in the land have supported an act which advertently or inadvertently authorizes the admission into evidence of information gained through torture. And the America that I believe in doesn’t detain people indefinitely without charges. He’s used our men and women in uniform improperly in Guantanamo and engaged in actions that I think are totally against the Uniform Code of Military Justice and against what we stand for as the American people.

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It is worth noting that 6 out of these 7 countries (with the exception of Lebanon) identified by General Wesley Clark “to be taken out” are now the object of President Trump’s ban on Muslims’ entry to the US: Iraq, Syria, Somalia, Libya, Sudan, Iran and Yemen. In 2004 he unsuccessfully ran for the Democratic presidential nomination. But I will tell you this: I think about it every single day. But this government, our administration, wanted to worry about Iraq, not Iran. So when you look at Iran, you say, “Is it a replay? But here’s the truth: that Iran, from the beginning, has seen that the presence of the United States in Iraq was a threat — a blessing, because we took out Saddam Hussein and the Baathists. So it was in their vital interest to be deeply involved inside Iraq. And in that sense, it’s not exactly parallel, because there has been, I believe, continuous Iranian engagement, some of it legitimate, some of it illegitimate. But when you leave, the Saudis have got to find someone to fight the Shias. Al-Qaeda, because the groups of Sunnis who would be extremists and willing to fight would probably be the groups connected to al-Qaeda. And I think it was either Howell Estes or Jack Sheehan who was the J3 at the time.

What we do have to do is have a strategy that uses all the elements of America’s power: diplomatic, economic, legal and military. And you’re looking out ahead of the ship, and you notice that there’s a part of the horizon. Who are these people that have been held down there? You see, essentially, you cannot win the war on terror by military force. It is secondly a law enforcement effort and a cooperative effort among nations.

I would send a high-level diplomatic team into the region right now. It’s a beautiful, starry night, except that there’s a part of the horizon, a sort of a regular hump out there where there are no stars visible. So I’d like to create an international tribunal, not a kangaroo court of military commissions. And only as a last resort do you use military force.

In 2004, he unsuccessfully ran for the Democratic presidential nomination. They just made the decision to go to war with Iraq.” He said, “I guess it’s like we don’t know what to do about terrorists, but we’ve got a good military and we can take down governments.” And he said, “I guess if the only tool you have is a hammer, every problem has to look like a nail.” So I came back to see him a few weeks later, and by that time we were bombing in Afghanistan. ” And he said, “Oh, it’s worse than that.” He reached over on his desk. And he said, “I just got this down from upstairs” — meaning the Secretary of Defense’s office — “today.” And he said, “This is a memo that describes how we’re going to take out seven countries in five years, starting with Iraq, and then Syria, Lebanon, Libya, Somalia, Sudan and, finishing off, Iran.” I said, “Is it classified? So it’s not surprising that we’re moving to a point of confrontation and crisis with Iran. You know, the Saudis have — AMY GOODMAN: You were just in Saudi Arabia. ” He looked at me, and he said, “Wes,” he said, “this is no drill.” He said, “I’m not authorized to tell you this.

He recently edited a series of books about famous US generals, including Dwight Eisenhower and Ulysses Grant, both of whom became president after their military careers ended. ” He said, “Yes, sir.” I said, “Well, don’t show it to me.” And I saw him a year or so ago, and I said, “You remember that? My point on this is not that the Iranians are good guys — they’re not — but that you shouldn’t use force, except as a last, last, last resort. AMY GOODMAN: I wanted to get your response to Seymour Hersh’s piece in to two key points this week, reporting the Pentagon’s established a special planning group within the office of the Joint Chiefs of Staff to plan a bombing attack on Iran, that this is coming as the Bush administration and Saudi Arabia are pumping money for covert operations into many areas of the Middle East, including Lebanon, Syria, and Iran, in an effort to strengthen Saudi-supported Sunni Islam groups and weaken Iranian-backed Shias — some of the covert money has been given to jihadist groups in Lebanon with ties to al-Qaeda — fighting the Shias by funding with Prince Bandar and then with US money not approved by Congress, funding the Sunnis connected to al-Qaeda. WESLEY CLARK: Well, I don’t have any direct information to confirm it or deny it. But,” he said “the decision has been made, and the United States will invade Haiti.

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